Today was supposed to be the day for the Bais Din to hear my case.
Alas it is not to be.
On Monday I received a call from a mutual acquaintance, we can call him "mutual friend", indicating the "religious ex" was going to show up for the Din Torah. Normally, the Toein would be the one to deal with scheduling the Din Torah. We needed to use this friend to communicate with her since she refuses to make the name of the Toein known to any of the Rabbonim.
Last night, my Rav gets a call from her Rav, Dayan 3.
Dayan 3 apologizes for the late call but "religious ex" is not showing up. Apparently, her lawyer is not able to make as the lawyer needs to be in court all day.
I call mutual friend. "What on earth is going on here?" I ask.
Well, "religious ex" says that she wasn't formally aware of the date until Monday. Her her lawyer could not make it.
Now, Dayan 3 knew about the date since he agreed to show up.
I ask "can we get the name of her Toein so we can let her know the schedule"?
Religious ex refuses to give him the name. Dayan 3 has also said that since he is a Dayan, he cannot talk to religious ex to get the Toein's name.
I had high hopes that we would get this thing over, I am so disappointed.
She has managed to avoid Bais Din for 3 1/2 years now. I feel that I have no options left but to go into the court system and ask for contempt against "religious ex". The Court ordered her in 2005 to return to Zavlah. The Court ordered her in May of 2006 to appoint a Dayan in 30 days.
I am frustrated. I really don't want to go to The Court. It would be a serious Chillul Hashem. I don't know what to do.
skip to main |
skip to sidebar
About Me
- Gave A Get
- I am a divorced man questioning the wisdom of giving a "get" with no strings attached. over 6 YEARS after giving a Get and hundreds of thousand of dollars in legal, Bais Din and other costs, I finally have a divorce
The Players - Update 12/2009
1. Religious Ex - The woman I was married to for 15 years and have 3 children with. She has a Get for over 5 1/2 years.
2. Dayan 1 - The first Dayan appointed by Religious Ex after ordered to by the Court, I'm not sure he ever existed.
3. Dayan 2 - The second Daya appointed by Religious Ex. He lives out of town. He's been replaced.
4. Dayan 3. The new Dayan representing Religious Ex. He's been replaced.
5. Mutual Friend - Has spend 4 months trying to negotiate a deal ( the 6th person to try) and got frustrated (like the rest) with Religious Ex
6. My Rav - The Dayan representing me
7. My 3 Children - that I did not see for 2+ years. I gave up custody after a protracted battle in which they were used as pawns by "religious ex" for money. Two of them are now coming to visit. This makes me happy!
8. The Court - Two Levels of the court system in the state that I live.
9. The Shlish - the neutral Dayan that has been agreed upon by our Dayanim. He's been replaced.
2. Dayan 1 - The first Dayan appointed by Religious Ex after ordered to by the Court, I'm not sure he ever existed.
3. Dayan 2 - The second Daya appointed by Religious Ex. He lives out of town. He's been replaced.
4. Dayan 3. The new Dayan representing Religious Ex. He's been replaced.
5. Mutual Friend - Has spend 4 months trying to negotiate a deal ( the 6th person to try) and got frustrated (like the rest) with Religious Ex
6. My Rav - The Dayan representing me
7. My 3 Children - that I did not see for 2+ years. I gave up custody after a protracted battle in which they were used as pawns by "religious ex" for money. Two of them are now coming to visit. This makes me happy!
8. The Court - Two Levels of the court system in the state that I live.
9. The Shlish - the neutral Dayan that has been agreed upon by our Dayanim. He's been replaced.
10. Dayan 4. "Religious Ex's" latest Borer. He worked hard for her and got her more than a simple reading of the halacha would suggest.
11. New Shlish. The neutral Dayan agreed upon by Dayan 4 and My Rav.
12. Chaya Gitty Rosenberg, who is close to "Religious Ex". Very supportive of her court actions. A real hypocrite.
13. The Askan. A Gentleman from the community where Religious-Ex grew up. He is the only person who she is willing to listen to. Has done incredible job getting 2 kids to talk to me.
14. Askan-2. A very holy man who has been involved with this case since day 1.
12. Chaya Gitty Rosenberg, who is close to "Religious Ex". Very supportive of her court actions. A real hypocrite.
13. The Askan. A Gentleman from the community where Religious-Ex grew up. He is the only person who she is willing to listen to. Has done incredible job getting 2 kids to talk to me.
14. Askan-2. A very holy man who has been involved with this case since day 1.
7 comments:
"It would be a serious Chillul Hashem."
Fuck that. Take her to court. If there's an aveirah it's on her chashbon.
I agree. You've done your hishtadlus. Make it known you are taking her to civil court because she obviously has no respect for any Bais Din. If there is a chilul Hashem, and I really don't think there is as no one outside the Orthodox world will look at you and think you did something embarrassing to Jews or Judaism.
Take her to civil court and leave her no option. Enough with Bais Din. They obviously don't have the power to do ANYTHING that will allow you to get on with your life. If anyone ever questions you, just tell them she's not really religious and has no respect for Rabbanim and you had no recourse BUT to take her to court so you could get on with life after Get.
All the best and I hope it all works out.
And perhaps, once you force the issue with civil proceedings, she may come around and actually go to Bais Din. If she agrees to go to Bais Din AND accept and do EVERYTHING the Bais Din says, and demands you first cancel the civil court date, my suggestion is you get EVERYTHING in writing, duly notarized and witnessed with lawyers present, and tell her you will cancel only AFTER everything is settled in Bais Din. These terms should not be in ANY way negotiable, especially the part about not canceling until after Bais Din settles everything. Otherwise, you know darn well she won't honor any agreement, written or otherwise, if she is already off the hook with the civil court.
Why do you assume court will move any more swiftly? Your advantage to remaining in bais din is that they have seen her behavior which may color their opinion of her.
I don't know what you've been waiting for. The "secular" courts might not necessarily move any swifter, but at least there's a system. Beis Din is a proprietary affair, with-- and this is the important part, now, so pay attention-- NO POWER OF ENFORCEMENT. They can't garnish funds. They can't enforce a fine. They can't put your ex in jail for contempt. They can't subpoena financial records. They can't order drug testing. They can't order a psychiatric exam. They can't order Social Services to inspect your ex's home or make her give you your kids. They can't do squat. They are a kangaroo system with no power. You may as well grab a few cheder rebbes off the street and convene a beis din-- they'll have as much power.
Pretty much any other frum person I know who is in the midst of a divorce-- and I know quite a few, unfortunately-- is going through the 'secular' court system for anything other than a get. So I don't understand why you wouldn't. There's no halacha that you have to shoot yourself in the foot and sabotage yourself.
NJG:
Nice diatribe but not accurate. Provide the two parties have signed a "shtar birurim" otherwise known as an Arbitration Agreement, the courts must enforce the determinations of the bais din when asked to do so. In fact, a bais din determination can not be appealed.
Used cautiously and properly, bais din can save time and money.
I've never known a beis din to do either.
And if the shtar birurim, or arbitration agreement, needs to be enforced by the vourts, they're getting involved anyway. It certainly seems that in this case, it's going to come to that.
A Beis Din, like any arbitration, is only as effective as the parties' willingness to abide by the arbitrators' or dayan's decision. If they aren't, or if they are going to exploit the process with delay tactics, then the process will have to be enforced upon them- and the way to do that is within the secular court system.
Arbitration can work when the parties are willing to sit down and work out their differences between themselves, with the guidance of an impartial third party. The nature of most divorces is such that there are fundamental polar disagreements at play-- that's why they're getting divorced; and as such, arbitration is unlikely to work. The notion that one is somehow violating halacha by first going to court is misguided and has its roots in an era when Jews were at the mercy of a Church-administered justice system. I don't think that a secular justice system like that of the United States, which is arguably among the most balanced in structure, was ever envisioned by the Rabbis of old.
Post a Comment